Our beloved Chiefs aren't playing today but as they say, the show must go on.  Here's some reading material for the morning.

• RockMNation walks us through Missouri's loss last night in their post game podcast.
• Jason Whitlock on the possibility of a Tony Gonzalez trade: "But the Giants’ front office, sitting on a Super Bowl title and feeling no urgency to win, isn’t all that interested in giving Kansas City fair compensation."
• Joe Posnanski on the possibility of a trade not getting done: "At one point this season, Gonzalez told me he would retire at the end of the year rather than go through this kind of losing again. At another point, he admitted that he could not see any light at the end of the tunnel. Again, he said these things quietly, away from the cameras, and he asked me not to write it yet."
• Bob Gretz tells us that Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Green Bay, Philadelphia and New York are interested in Gonzalez.
• Bigknoxy shares a video with us that is, uh, interesting to say the least.
• From the mothership on our rookies from prominent college teams accepting losing.

Use this thread for any and all football talk.  I am headed to Austin next week for the MU/Texas game so last night was a big let down for me as I was anticipating a potential #1 vs. #3 matchup.

I'm sure everyone has heard the rumors swirling recently regarding potentially sending Tony Gonzalez to the New York Giants.  Remember, at this point they're just rumors.  Nothing has been confirmed so anything you see here will be clearly labeled as a rumor or a confirmed story.

Let's take a look at a few different sources of the rumors.

Jay Glazer:

Why would a team trade a man many consider the greatest tight end of all time? The Chiefs are rebuilding and by the time they turn around their fortunes, Gonzalez's time in this league could be over. Why let his career end on a rebuilding team? He and team President Carl Peterson are extremely close. If they can find a trade that would work for all parties, it would actually be quite honorable for a team executive to not hold a player hostage in his final years on a rebuilding team. Get something for him to assist with the rebuilding process. He'll forever be loved in KC regardless.

Pro Football Talk on KSHB rumors:

Though we haven’t confirmed that KSHB is reporting this information, we’ve learned separately that, indeed, an effort is afoot to move Gonzalez out of Kansas City.

I haven't found anything from KSHB about their report.

Check out this google search to see how quickly these rumors gain steam.

So, what's the validity of all these stories?  I would imagine there's some there.  We've heard in separate rumors from local talk show radio hosts that Tony allegedly requested a trade before the Broncos game.  I've heard that the trade request didn't happen until this week.  The trade deadline is week 6 so if a deal is going to get done then it will happen soon.

Historically Carl Peterson has dragged these things out but with a quick deadline approaching, something has gotta give.  Considering we are in a full rebuilding mode, it would be silly for him to turn down a deal that could help this team in the future.

Let's hear what everyone thinks about this.  To gain some perspective on compensation let's keep in mind that Jeremy Shockey, who is 28 years old, was traded over the offseason for a 2nd and 5th round pick.  So, the story goes that the Giants could drop their 2nd and 5th round picks they received from the Saints for a minimum 1 1/2 year rental for Gonzalez.

Also, I found this quote from Tony about a month ago regarding the rebuilding effort. 

“There’s nothing we can do about it. I think coach has made that decision, you know as far as getting rid of the older guys on the team, to go younger, and that’s fine with me. I think with the guys he brought in here, I’m definitely happy with it. At first I was frustrated – I was a little pissed off to tell the truth – because I’m winding down in my career and I’m thinking ‘this is not what I signed on for last year when I redid my deal’ after seeing the guys that they brought in and after the draft, it’s making a lot more sense. We’re a pretty good football team. There’s no doubt about it.”

There's definitely a hint of anxiousness in him.  I know he wants to win.  I'm not going to say we owe it to him to trade him to a contender, but I am going to say that we owe it to the team to do whatever it takes to make this team better and a trade with draft picks in return might accomplish that.

Larry Johnson

Everyone says he can not be traded because of the cap hit.  Let's take a look at why this is true.  Here's the breakdown of the hit we would take if we traded him before the week 6 deadline.

Prorated 2008 salary: $1.7 million

2009 salary: $4.55 million

Prorated Bonus ($12.5 million over 6 years and prorated in 2008): $9.68 million

Total Cap Hit in 2009: $15.93 million

This is my understanding of the cap hit we would take if we traded him.  Of course, after 2009 that number would drop drastically.

Tony Gonzalez

This is intriguing but only because we know Tony still has it.  The facts are, though, that he's 32 years old and hasn't committed to playing beyond 2009.  I could see him being sent to a contender looking to be pushed over the hump.

But would the Chiefs do it?  Unlikely.  Right now he and Bowe are our only consistent offensive threats in the passing game.  And our passing game sucks so we need Tony more than anyone else.

Damon Huard

Believe it or not, Huard has some value.  He's a proven back up at the most important position in the league.  Unfortunately for us, like Tony we need him more than anyone else.  We can not, repeat can not continue this season without Huard.  Croyle is unlikely to stay healthy for the next 11 games which would leave Tyler Thigpen or someone off the street to lead our team and we've seen how catastrophic that can be.

Patrick Surtain

I'm down for moving him.  He's in the 4th year of a 7 year deal signed in 2005.  Brandon Carr has proven he can hang in the secondary so Surtain seems to be a stop gap until the rookie is ready to take his spot full time.  On top of that, there's been talk of Carr taking Surtain's spot at some point this season anyway.

• Next Up: Tennessee Titans - Visit Music City Miracles for all your Titan needs over the next two weeks.
• Previewing the Titans from the Mothership.
• Will Antonio Gates make a run at Tony Gonzalez's HOF TE numbers?
• For those looking to snag J.P. Losman, Buffalo starter Trent Edwards went down in a brutal hit last week.
• How sweet it is that Tony G. passed Shannon 'Big Mouth' Sharpe for the all-time record for yards by a tight end?  Man, I can't stand that guy!
• Jon Yoon over at MVN is embarrassed by the media coverage of TG's record breaking day.

I'll be back with more soon but on a quick side note, I highly encourage everyone to take advantage of using the 'rec' button for FanPosts.  As I'm sure you've noticed we are getting more and more every day (especially game days), so definitely 'rec' the quality ones up so they don't get lost in the shuffle.

 

Nick Athan at WPI:

The Chiefs’ biggest debacle so far hasn’t been losing to the Patriots, Raiders, Falcons or Panthers. It was letting Pennington get away. He wanted to come to Kansas City, but the Chiefs didn’t pull the trigger. Whether it was a coaching thing or a management thing, the bottom line is this season could have been different if Pennington was a Chief and not a Dolphin.

I definitely see the argument here.  But what good is reliving the past going to do?

Joe Posnanski:

Well, it was fitting that this was the fifth week of the season because the Chiefs have now gone through all five stages of grief. There seemed to be no denial left in the locker room after the Chiefs’ nauseating 34-0 loss Sunday to Carolina. There wasn’t much anger. The Chiefs’ players were not in the mood for bargaining, and few players even seem very depressed.

Uh oh.  When the anger and depression after a devastating loss isn't there, what's next?

Kent Babb:

Then again, the Chiefs are approaching the season’s midway point, and other than the Denver victory, there haven’t been many indications the defense can string together decent performances, let alone good ones.

It's getting to (or gotten to rather) the point where we really need to question the defense.  That was our one area where we saw the potential last year.  Even if it is a rebuilding year, the run defense is a major cause for concern for me.

The Red Zone on Tony Gonzalez's record breaking catch:

The broken record was considerably quieter than it might have been in Kansas City, where last week Arrowhead Stadium officials had planned to stop the game and acknowledge the 12-year veteran.

Ugh.  After a game like this I feel sick to my stomach Tony couldn't break it at home.  Although I will tell people I'm fine if he wants to go to a contender, I can't fathom this team without him.

Larry Johnson:

“I’ve seen it coming. There are certain things in a game that you as a player know what’s going to happen. They’re going to gang up on the run because of the success we had the week before. That’s what you’ve got to live with. You’ve got to take it in stride and hopefully do better next week. This is a young team, and this is what happens when you rebuild.”

Somewhere in the back of my mind I wanted to see LJ get mad.  I wanted him to be pissed.  This lack of anger at a pathetic performance like this really makes me wonder what the state of the locker room is.  At some point, being a "players coach" stops being a good thing, especially when you look around and can't pinpoint just one problem.  It's the whole team.

All I'm looking for is a little accountability and for MY TEAM that's not too much to ask.

What about you - does it worry you that even LJ isn't throwing a hissy fit after a loss like this?

* End of the longest losing streak in Chiefs history.

* The players made plays.  Larry Johnson 7.1 yds/carry.  Dwayne Bowe 7 Receptions 81 yds.  Tony G 3 receptions 47 Yds.  Damon Huard 75% comp % with no INTs.  Derrick Johnson 1 forced fumble, 1 int.  Dorsey and Tank Tyler stuffing the middle.  Herb Taylor filling in for Brandon Albert.

* Kolby Smith doing the Tomahawk Chop

* Young Chiefs Defense becoming ball hawks.  Every play the Chiefs defense was ripping at the ball.  The result was two fumbles recovered and two interceptions.

* Our young CBs holding their own.  Carr had 2 Tackles, 3 passes defended, an interception and a fumble recovery.  Flowers had 7 Tackles, 2 passes defended and a fumble recovery.  Dmitri Patterson had 8 Combined Tackles.

* Larry Johnson runs for 198 yards and 2 TDs

* Arrowhead Stadium rocking the whole game instead of booing.

* Chiefs score 32 points.  (what is this?  the arena league?)

* Herm going on the field to check on Tony G when he was hurt (which he NEVER does)

* Denver Broncos only had 94 yards total rushing.

*Dantrelle Savages 51 yard Kickoff Return when we needed it most.

* LJ smiling

Pro Football Reference is an excellent resource that, like Football Outsiders, provides a bounty of untraditional statistics intended to accurately identify trends throughout NFL history.

This particular chart was created from the Approximate Value method.  The idea behind it is to determine the best all-time players for each club.  The folks over at PFR can explain it better than my 5AM, caffeine-less mind can right now so head on over there and check it out.

Halfbacks and fullbacks were lumped into one category along with tight ends and receivers.

Today we'll look at the offense and soon enough I'll post the defense.

QB	Len Dawson	98
RB	Priest Holmes	69
RB	Ed Podolak	54
RC	Tony Gonzalez	94
RC	Fred Arbanas	66
RC	Otis Taylor	65
RC	Henry Marshall	53
T	Jim Tyrer	95
T	John Alt	68
G	Will Shields	95
G	Ed Budde	77
C	Jack Rudnay	62

In an ideal situation, I'd like to see Dwayne Bowe and Brandon Albert up on that list someday.  Other than that, I don't think we have any offensive players on the current team that will warrant consideration.

What other current players have a shot to replace one of the all-time greats on there?

It's all need to know info, right?

• One of the unverified rumors circling KC this week has been that Damon Huard asked to be taken out of the Raiders game, or that he had gotten on Herm's bad side and coach got fed up with him. Not sure if either of those is true but I wanted to throw them out there.


• Brodie Croyle and Pat Surtain are the only Kansas City Chiefs not practicing according to the injury report. Looks like Nap Harris and Will Franklin are a go this weekend but I'm unsure of how much they'll play, if at all.


• Harm Edwards? It could stick.


• Within two weeks, Tony Gonzalez should surpass Shannon Sharpe on the all-time receiving yards for a tight end list. He needs 85 yards to do it.That would give TG the most touchdowns by a tight end; the most receptions by a tight end; and the most receiving yards by a tight end. Greatest. Ever.


• Eh, why not? Early Look: NFL Draft Top 100 Prospects from Rivals.com.


• I suppose it's about time to start using this phrase - "The Nextel portion of Sprint Nextel has been losing subscribers even faster than the Kansas City Chiefs have been losing starting quarterbacks lately."


• Jeffrey Flanagan says: "Be patient. It will get better."



• One more item of note from the Comment of the Day on Flanagan's blog - "My family has had season tickets for 35+ years. I would like a partial credit towards next year, please."

  No. No you should not get a freakin' partial refund. Do you know how exchanging money for a product works? You paid to see a football season. Not a winning football season. A season. You did not pay for a specific football strategy. No team can guarantee wins. It was your decision to buy the season tickets. The Chiefs did not make you do that. Maybe if you paid an ounce of attention to the team you would know that the expectations for this year were zero. At least for the educated fans they were.

  You wouldn't demand a refund on your wedding because you and your wife got in a fight, would you?

  The reader comment ends like this: "How great would it be if all the fans boycotted and stayed in the parking lot for a whole game?" Seriously dude? You just lost your Chiefs' fan privileges. Give your tickets to someone who actually wants to watch football and stay the hell away from me.




• Speaking of wives and the Chiefs...



• More Quinn talk: Brady Quinn Will Not Be A Member of the Kansas City Chiefs.


• No TV blackout in Atlanta. Get used to hearing about Chiefs blackouts this year. It's the lazy story to file on Wednesday for reporters because the sell-by date for the NFL is Thursdays at 1 PM for Sunday games.


• I forgot where I read it but someone compared Damon Huard to a few of the guys in the cart in this clip.


• styg50 from MHR picked the Chiefs to win this weekend!


• Finally, and I'm stretching a bit here, does it bother you that Tyler Thigpen's alma mater's football program is only five years old? It has no bearing on his play in the NFL today but I'm just saying. That's a young program.

Wooh..that's a lot of links. Come back throughout the day if you don't get to read them all this morning. Enjoy those and we'll have this week's Know Thy Enemy coming up shortly. Also, please take part in our demographic poll below. Thanks!

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  293 votes | Results

**UPDATE SAT. 5 PM** Final cuts have been made. Head here.

Of course, the 53 players on the team after 5 PM central time tonight won't be the exact roster for opening day. After the NFL roster deadline hits this evening, expect the Kansas City Chiefs to pick up one or two players off of the waiver wire.

I've run through the roster and made my decisions on who I think will be cut. Interestingly enough, while researching this and reading others cut lists, most of them are in agreement about 95% of the time.

The only differences I've seen in people's cut lists are the tail ends of the linebacker and line rotations. A little LeRue Rumph here. A little Anthony Alabi there. Maybe throw in some Sippio. (Update: Sippio apparently has been cut)

There isn't anything groundbreaking in this post because it's pretty easy to pick about 90% of this roster with about that same certainty.

QB: Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen and Damon Huard

No surprises here. The Chiefs will carry three quarterbacks on the final roster no matter what and these are almost assuredly the three they will keep.

Cut: None

RB: Larry Johnson, Kolby Smith, Jamaal Charles, Jackie Battle and Dantrell Savage

Dantrell Savage hopefully makes this team as a kick returner but I've included him in the running backs section. LJ, Kolby and Jamaal Charles are all 100% safe. Battle may not make it because of roster numbers but he's probably safe too.

Cut: None

WR: Dwayne Bowe, Devard Darling, Will Franklin, Maurice Price and Jeff Webb

Despite not catching a pass this preseason, Devard Darling is still accomplished enough to get the nod over Arthur, Joachim, McMahan and Sippio. If you make an argument against Darling, you have to make an argument for one of those guys making the team and I don't think you can. Maybe you can make an argument for Bobby Sippio but I think you're splitting hairs at that point.(Update: Sippio has apparently been cut)

Cut: Jabari Arthur, Sergio Joachim, Kevin McMahan and Bobby Sippio

FB:Mike Cox and Chris Manderino

Word on the street is that the Chiefs like Manderino's special teams play, which is great for him because Mike Cox has the starting fullback spot nailed.

Cut: None

TE: Tony Gonzalez, Brad Cottam and J.P. Foschi

TG and Cottam are locks to make the roster and we'll give Foschi and his GA Tech roots the nod over the injured Mike Merritt and Michael "What happened to people being excited about me?" Allan. Allan may spend his final year on the practice squad before permanently falling off into obscurity. My future money says this is another D3 experiment that will not succeed.

Cut: Michael Allan and Mike Merritt

O-Line: Branden Albert, Brian Waters, Rudy Niswanger, Adrian Jones, Damion McIntosh, Herb Taylor, Barry Richardson and Wade Smith

I think those first eight offensive linemen I listed are definitely going to make the team. Beyond that, I think we could see another player dropped at a different position in favor of another offensive linemen. That linemen may not even be on the team right now and there is no way the Chiefs are satisfied with the depth they have on the offensive line.

Cut: Travis Leffew, Tre Stallings, Will Svitek, Anthony Alabi, Edwin Harrison and Rob Smith

D-Line: Turk McBride, Tank Tyler, Glenn Dorsey, Tamba Hali, Alfonso Boone, Ron Edwards. T.J. Jackson and Brian Johnston

After Ron Edwards, you're entering a pretty blurry area on the defensive line. TJ Jackson and Brian Johnston both had their names called more than a few times last Thursday against the Rams and that may be enough to distinguish themselves from the other defensive linemen.

Cut: Johnny Dingle, Jason Parker and Derek Lokey

LB: Derrick Johnson, Pat Thomas, Donnie Edwards, Demorrio Williams, Weston Dacus and Nap Harris (Int'l player Aden Durde will be on the practice squad but not count for a spot)

Nap Harris seems to be on everyone else's cut list and he certainly is a possible roster casualty. One of the cuts listed below could out value Harris on special teams, making the decision to keep him even more difficult. Donnie Edwards of course makes the final cut but how durable will he be in his 13th season? He's already tweaked a hamstring.

Cut: EJ Kuale, Steve Octavien and LeRue Rumph

CB: Patrick Surtain, Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, Dimitri Patterson, Tyron Brackenridge and Maurice Leggett

The first four CB spots are taken with Brackenridge, Barksdale and Leggett battling for the final one or even two spots. Can't say I've seen much of any of those three this preseason, making my analysis a bit strained. Brackenridge will probably get the nod because the Chiefs liked him enough last year as an UDFA to play him a bit and neither Barksdale nor Leggett has distinguished themselves.

Cut: Rashard Barksdale

S: Jarrad Page, Bernard Pollard, Jon McGraw and DaJuan Morgan

The safety position isn't difficult to figure out. Page and Pollard will start with McGraw and Morgan rotating in and out. The Chiefs don't need five safeties on the team.

Cut: Khayyam Burns

Special Teams: Nick Novak, Dustin Colquitt and J.P. Darche

Again, no surprises here. The Sams v. Savage competition is pretty much even but I'll throw my support behind the younger, less Drummond-like Dantrell Savage. My gut says Sams makes the team though but I can't bring myself to post that.

Cut: BJ Sams and Connor Barth (he's still on the roster so we'll include him for good measure)

We've already had a few threads about the roster cuts so use this spot to make any last minute predictions. I'll update you on the cuts as soon as I hear about them.

Of course, the 53 players on the team after 5 PM central time tonight won't be the exact roster for opening day. After the NFL roster deadline hits this evening, expect the Chiefs to pick up one or two players off of the waiver wire.

I've run through the roster and made my decisions on who I think will be cut. Interestingly enough, while researching this and reading others cut lists, most of them are in agreement about 95% of the time.

The only differences I've seen in people's cut lists are the tail ends of the linebacker and line rotations. A little LeRue Rumph here. A little Anthony Alabi there. Maybe throw in some Sippio.

QB: Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen and Damon Huard

No surprises here. The Chiefs will carry three quarterbacks on the final roster no matter what and these are almost assuredly the three they will keep.

Cut: None

RB: Larry Johnson, Kolby Smith, Jamaal Charles, Jackie Battle and Dantrell Savage

Dantrell Savage hopefully makes this team as a kick returner but I've included him in the running backs section. LJ, Kolby and Jamaal Charles are all 100% safe. Battle may not make it because of roster numbers but he's probably safe too.

Cut: None

WR: Dwayne Bowe, Devard Darling, Will Franklin, Maurice Price and Jeff Webb

Despite not catching a pass this preseason, Devard Darling is still accomplished enough to get the nod over Arthur, Joachim, McMahan and Sippio. If you make an argument against Darling, you have to make an argument for one of those guys making the team and I don't think you can. Maybe you can make an argument for Bobby Sippio but I think you're splitting hairs at that point.

Cut: Jabari Arthur, Sergio Joachim, Kevin McMahan and Bobby Sippio

FB:Mike Cox and Chris Manderino

Word on the street is that the Chiefs like Manderino's special teams play, which is great for him because Mike Cox has the starting fullback spot nailed.

Cut: None

TE: Tony Gonzalez, Brad Cottam and J.P. Foschi

TG and Cottam are locks to make the roster and we'll give Foschi and his GA Tech roots the nod over the injured Mike Merritt and Michael "What happened to people being excited about me?" Allan. Allan may spend his final year on the practice squad before permanently falling off into obscurity. My future money says this is another D3 experiment that will not succeed.

Cut: Michael Allan and Mike Merritt

O-Line: Branden Albert, Brian Waters, Rudy Niswanger, Adrian Jones, Damion McIntosh, Herb Taylor, Barry Richardson and Wade Smith

I think those first eight offensive linemen I listed are definitely going to make the team. Beyond that, I think we could see another player dropped at a different position in favor of another offensive linemen. That linemen may not even be on the team right now and there is no way the Chiefs are satisfied with the depth they have on the offensive line.

Cut: Travis Leffew, Tre Stallings, Will Svitek, Anthony Alabi, Edwin Harrison and Rob Smith

D-Line: Turk McBride, Tank Tyler, Glenn Dorsey, Tamba Hali, Alfonso Boone, Ron Edwards. T.J. Jackson and Brian Johnston

After Ron Edwards, you're entering a pretty blurry area on the defensive line. TJ Jackson and Brian Johnston both had their names called more than a few times last Thursday against the Rams and that may be enough to distinguish themselves from the other defensive linemen.

Cut: Johnny Dingle, Jason Parker and Derek Lokey

LB: Derrick Johnson, Pat Thomas, Donnie Edwards, Demorrio Williams, Weston Dacus and Nap Harris (Int'l player Aden Durde will be on the practice squad but not count for a spot)

Nap Harris seems to be on everyone else's cut list and he certainly is a possible roster casualty. One of the cuts listed below could out value Harris on special teams, making the decision to keep him even more difficult. Donnie Edwards of course makes the final cut but how durable will he be in his 13th season? He's already tweaked a hamstring.

Cut: EJ Kuale, Steve Octavien and LeRue Rumph

CB: Patrick Surtain, Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, Dimitri Patterson, Tyron Brackenridge and Maurice Leggett

The first four CB spots are taken with Brackenridge, Barksdale and Leggett battling for the final one or even two spots. Can't say I've seen much of any of those three this preseason, making my analysis a bit strained. Brackenridge will probably get the nod because the Chiefs liked him enough last year as an UDFA to play him a bit and neither Barksdale nor Leggett has distinguished themselves.

Cut: Rashard Barksdale

S: Jarrad Page, Bernard Pollard, Jon McGraw and DaJuan Morgan

The safety position isn't difficult to figure out. Page and Pollard will start with McGraw and Morgan rotating in and out. The Chiefs don't need five safeties on the team.

Cut: Khayyam Burns

Special Teams: Nick Novak, Dustin Colquitt and J.P. Darche

Again, no surprises here. The Sams v. Savage competition is pretty much even but I'll throw my support behind the younger, less Drummond-like Dantrell Savage.

Cut: BJ Sams and Connor Barth (he's still on the roster so we'll include him for good measure)

We've already had a few threads about the roster cuts today so use this spot to make any last minute predictions. I'll update you on the cuts as soon as I hear about them.